This is exactly why I like to think of myself as a "plantser"! I don't make outlines (too overwhelming for me) but as I'm writing I do think about the three act structure and what plot point (whether the inciting incident, the midpoint etc) needs to happen next.
I had a writing teacher once who likened writing a novel without even a vague sense of plotting as building a house without a foundation (you can do it, but it doesn't hold up very well, and it's hard to fix afterward!)
I love this idea of being a "plantser," and I think that's what I am, too! I generally start with a clear character or two, and a rough sense of where I think she will go, but I don't lock myself into a firm step-by-step outline. I like the idea of having a path to follow, but remaining open to turning off of that path onto new paths that may pop up along the way...
Exactly, Kristen! Well said. I agree that sometimes as you’re writing a better option will present itself! It’s nice to have flexibility to make discoveries about the story as you’re writing it.
Over the last 10 years, I abandoned two books at the 40,000 word mark because I couldn't get past "then something happens" in the middle. So I made myself do scene cards for the one I'm working on now, and the writing is so much more fun!
I am clapping so loudly. I could write a million words about how misleading Mr King’s advice is and how many years I wasted trying to follow him and Mr Gardner - but all I will say is hell yes to this. And it’s so damn important and so hard to get some writers to understand.
Hear, hear! I almost made the mistake of skipping this stack because I've grown so tired of the false "plotter or pantser" binary — but I'm very glad I dove in! I love King's "On Writing" but I do think he wrote it from the perspective of an author who has written so much for so long that certain (major!) elements of crafting a novel are so within his mastery by now that he might not recall what it was like to have to struggle to, say, find a structure (and really, what is structure if not plot?).
I also read ON WRITING and panicked about how much I was doing wrong. Thanks so much for reminding us all that there is no one path to becoming a Real Writer, with all the capital letters. The only way is to sit down & write! I have been loving your posts :)
This is great. I love ON WRITING, but appreciate the inclusiveness of your definition of plotting, here. And it's so true that it's become the MB or enneagram label for writers. 😅
It's funny that I never had the thought "I have a novel in me" because I never had any complete, perfectly formed ideas for a plot, just sitting around in my head. Which is what I thought authors had.
And then I came across the book No Plot, No Problem by Chris Baty. It made me think that maybe I could indeed write a novel, even though I didn't have a plot in advance. I will forever be grateful to that book for making me try!
HOWEVER... I came to realize that I do need a plot. It's just that it doesn't spring, fully formed, from my head! And I completely agree with you that writers like Stephen King are indeed plotting. He may come up with that plot more intuitively than someone who plans in advance of writing. And he may do it during the process of writing the first draft. And other writers might do it during the process of writing the first three or five drafts!
But, unless a novel is very experimental, it needs a plot. How an author comes up with it doesn't matter — whatever works for them is good! For me, I need to plan most of the plot in advance, allowing for sub-plot ideas and interesting deviations from the plan to come up during drafting.
Seriously, I outline, then let my characters take me where they will, even if that means changing the outline. I had one supportive character suddenly turn on the hero — and I promise that was not planned when I began that chapter. I was going sentence by sentence, and to my utter shock the character not only wanted to turn on the hero, it was absolutely the right thing for him to do in that scene, and it made for a much better story. A lot of outline went out the window in that moment, but a better plot resulted.
But absolutely I start with an outline or else my characters would sit in the corner and play cards all day.
Loved reading this! It's honestly a relief to hear that other writers do a messy combo of both.
I only have one novel (still in progress) to use as reference, but I pants'd my first draft and it took forever and the result was...not good lol. So then I went back and plotted it out to figure out what the actual story was, who the vital characters were, pacing, arcs, etc etc. Doing that made writing the next draft a LOT easier, but I'm not sure I would have been able to plot at all if I hadn't first gotten that first draft down? Like, I needed to have words on the page before I could move them around and make something out of them? I did the whole post-it thing; now I'm working off a spreadsheet. With each draft, I try something new. Hoping to finish this one soon, start the next, and figure out what my process actually is!
This is 100% legitimate way to draft, and fundamentally how I completed both of mine! Have you read Matt Bell’s refuse to be done? - great craft book.
I’m into a new manuscript now, and it’s the first one I’ve “plotted” in advance. It is still surprising me! And confusing me! But having a place to write toward takes a lot of the pressure off!!
Ha, I’m actually reading Refuse to Be Done now! Wish I found it earlier, but it’s also validating because a lot of his tips are things I already did intuitively/by accident.
I found this so interesting! Especially what you said about going back to your first novel. I'm working on my debut now and it definitely has a plot but I'd say it's a bit "quiet" and I've been trying to infuse it with a bit more depth and psychological elements to make it more appealing.
It would be fascinating to learn a little bit more about your revision process for your first book if you ever wanted to share in a post how you teased out some of those elements you mention. I know you shared a little about using Save the Cat but even that I've sometimes found challenging though, I've never done it once the book is already complete so I'm going to try that now that it is.
Definitely plantser here. I think not outlining my first book, personally, allowed what had been my generally trapped and strapped in tight creative self the rooooom I needed to… actually create and draft the dang thing. BUT THEN.
Yes, we’ve got to get things tidied up and in order and you cannot do with without purpose, planning, plotting, etc. Which is where I’m still at, multiple revisions in.
My second (half of a) book definitely didn’t have an outline, per say, but learning what I did from the first time FAR more of a structure, plan to start… though still very loosey goosey (especially as compared to my day to day M.O.).
This is exactly why I like to think of myself as a "plantser"! I don't make outlines (too overwhelming for me) but as I'm writing I do think about the three act structure and what plot point (whether the inciting incident, the midpoint etc) needs to happen next.
I had a writing teacher once who likened writing a novel without even a vague sense of plotting as building a house without a foundation (you can do it, but it doesn't hold up very well, and it's hard to fix afterward!)
My “outlines” are about 3 words in each little excel box, and sometimes those words are “fill in later” 🤓
LOL I too have written similar "outlines," but only in Word, I'm not fancy enough for Excel!
I had to use it for something 🤷🏼♀️
I love this idea of being a "plantser," and I think that's what I am, too! I generally start with a clear character or two, and a rough sense of where I think she will go, but I don't lock myself into a firm step-by-step outline. I like the idea of having a path to follow, but remaining open to turning off of that path onto new paths that may pop up along the way...
Exactly, Kristen! Well said. I agree that sometimes as you’re writing a better option will present itself! It’s nice to have flexibility to make discoveries about the story as you’re writing it.
Over the last 10 years, I abandoned two books at the 40,000 word mark because I couldn't get past "then something happens" in the middle. So I made myself do scene cards for the one I'm working on now, and the writing is so much more fun!
Yes! Agree 💯
I am clapping so loudly. I could write a million words about how misleading Mr King’s advice is and how many years I wasted trying to follow him and Mr Gardner - but all I will say is hell yes to this. And it’s so damn important and so hard to get some writers to understand.
🤪
🥰
Hear, hear! I almost made the mistake of skipping this stack because I've grown so tired of the false "plotter or pantser" binary — but I'm very glad I dove in! I love King's "On Writing" but I do think he wrote it from the perspective of an author who has written so much for so long that certain (major!) elements of crafting a novel are so within his mastery by now that he might not recall what it was like to have to struggle to, say, find a structure (and really, what is structure if not plot?).
I agree. May we all be so lucky!
I just wrote this Monday . . .https://open.substack.com/pub/mfaandbeyond/p/neither-a-plotter-not-a-pantser-be?r=3gfzt&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
It is a false choice! 🙌🏻👍🏽👊🏼
So funny! We are on the same page! It is a false choice!!
I also read ON WRITING and panicked about how much I was doing wrong. Thanks so much for reminding us all that there is no one path to becoming a Real Writer, with all the capital letters. The only way is to sit down & write! I have been loving your posts :)
Thank you!!! There is no wrong way, and it’s crazy to think I believed there could be for so long ❤️
This is great. I love ON WRITING, but appreciate the inclusiveness of your definition of plotting, here. And it's so true that it's become the MB or enneagram label for writers. 😅
I love on writing too, but yeesh! So harsh!
It's funny that I never had the thought "I have a novel in me" because I never had any complete, perfectly formed ideas for a plot, just sitting around in my head. Which is what I thought authors had.
And then I came across the book No Plot, No Problem by Chris Baty. It made me think that maybe I could indeed write a novel, even though I didn't have a plot in advance. I will forever be grateful to that book for making me try!
HOWEVER... I came to realize that I do need a plot. It's just that it doesn't spring, fully formed, from my head! And I completely agree with you that writers like Stephen King are indeed plotting. He may come up with that plot more intuitively than someone who plans in advance of writing. And he may do it during the process of writing the first draft. And other writers might do it during the process of writing the first three or five drafts!
But, unless a novel is very experimental, it needs a plot. How an author comes up with it doesn't matter — whatever works for them is good! For me, I need to plan most of the plot in advance, allowing for sub-plot ideas and interesting deviations from the plan to come up during drafting.
💯
Better a plotter than a plodder.
Seriously, I outline, then let my characters take me where they will, even if that means changing the outline. I had one supportive character suddenly turn on the hero — and I promise that was not planned when I began that chapter. I was going sentence by sentence, and to my utter shock the character not only wanted to turn on the hero, it was absolutely the right thing for him to do in that scene, and it made for a much better story. A lot of outline went out the window in that moment, but a better plot resulted.
But absolutely I start with an outline or else my characters would sit in the corner and play cards all day.
100% yes on all of this!
(And Plodder vs plotter! I wish I’d thought of that!)
Loved reading this! It's honestly a relief to hear that other writers do a messy combo of both.
I only have one novel (still in progress) to use as reference, but I pants'd my first draft and it took forever and the result was...not good lol. So then I went back and plotted it out to figure out what the actual story was, who the vital characters were, pacing, arcs, etc etc. Doing that made writing the next draft a LOT easier, but I'm not sure I would have been able to plot at all if I hadn't first gotten that first draft down? Like, I needed to have words on the page before I could move them around and make something out of them? I did the whole post-it thing; now I'm working off a spreadsheet. With each draft, I try something new. Hoping to finish this one soon, start the next, and figure out what my process actually is!
This is 100% legitimate way to draft, and fundamentally how I completed both of mine! Have you read Matt Bell’s refuse to be done? - great craft book.
I’m into a new manuscript now, and it’s the first one I’ve “plotted” in advance. It is still surprising me! And confusing me! But having a place to write toward takes a lot of the pressure off!!
Ha, I’m actually reading Refuse to Be Done now! Wish I found it earlier, but it’s also validating because a lot of his tips are things I already did intuitively/by accident.
I felt the same way when I read it!!
I found this so interesting! Especially what you said about going back to your first novel. I'm working on my debut now and it definitely has a plot but I'd say it's a bit "quiet" and I've been trying to infuse it with a bit more depth and psychological elements to make it more appealing.
It would be fascinating to learn a little bit more about your revision process for your first book if you ever wanted to share in a post how you teased out some of those elements you mention. I know you shared a little about using Save the Cat but even that I've sometimes found challenging though, I've never done it once the book is already complete so I'm going to try that now that it is.
Anyway, thank you for this!
I will definitely share about this, soon I hope 🤓
Definitely plantser here. I think not outlining my first book, personally, allowed what had been my generally trapped and strapped in tight creative self the rooooom I needed to… actually create and draft the dang thing. BUT THEN.
Yes, we’ve got to get things tidied up and in order and you cannot do with without purpose, planning, plotting, etc. Which is where I’m still at, multiple revisions in.
My second (half of a) book definitely didn’t have an outline, per say, but learning what I did from the first time FAR more of a structure, plan to start… though still very loosey goosey (especially as compared to my day to day M.O.).
I did so many revisions of TTYL, Big, sweeping edits, before I got it the plot down. I think 12!